Inner Formation Before Outward Influence: What 2025 Taught Us About Integrity (Part 4 of 5)

Ralph Owens (00:00)
you have to make a decision what man you're going to be. You have to draw a line in the sand. This is who I'm going to be. That's not conditional upon the circumstances.

Terry Baylor (00:07)
Yes.

there was a definition of integrity in the book. And it was simply this, doing the right thing, even if it's at your own expense, that's, that is the highest form of integrity.

Ralph Owens (00:18)
Mm-hmm. Okay, that's integrity.

this is the type of person that I'm going to be, irregardless of the circumstances around me. when you introspectively look within yourself and say, who am I? And Who am I choosing to be?

Terry Baylor (00:24)
Yes. Yes. Yes.

Ralph Owens (00:52)
you know, this kind of clarity takes courage. You know, it's especially when the stakes are high and the pressure is real. You know, you have to be courageous within yourself, right? To be able to have this type of clarity. So man, good stuff, man. Brenda's definitely life changing. Life changing. And talk about life changing. Let's transition to Mr. Philip McKibben's when... ⁓ man.

Terry Baylor (00:55)
It does.

Yeah.

Yep.

my God, there's so many points that feel right about, I don't even know where to start.

Ralph Owens (01:20)
man

Terry Baylor (01:20)
I don't know from the time he was talking about being down in the ship and, you know, man, and just having the peace to lead the way he did and God showing up the way he did. mean, you know, for me, I'll be honest, that's it for me. Look, you can't get no better than God did it. You can't get no better than that. You can't get no better than God did it, you know?

Ralph Owens (01:25)
Yes.

Yes.

That's it. That's it. That's it.

That's it. That's it. That's it. it. Phil, if you're listening, man, you completely wrecked us. We had no idea that was coming. And it blessed not only us, but the hundreds of people who listened to the podcast. ⁓ You know, some of the impactful moments from Phil's conversation was confidence versus arrogance and leadership, right?

Terry Baylor (01:46)
⁓ my gosh.

this.

Mmm.

Ralph Owens (02:06)
Just because you are confident doesn't mean you're arrogant, but just because you're arrogant doesn't mean you're confident. So good. And speaking the truth under pressure, right? You have to have courage. You have to have courage to speak the truth, even if someone's putting the pressure on you to not do so, right? And be okay with whatever the cause are gonna fall, right? Terry and I have talked about this for years.

Terry Baylor (02:10)
Yeah. Yes. Yes. ⁓ man. It's true. It's true.

Ooh, you gotta do it.

Yeah, yeah, to not do so. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah.

Ralph Owens (02:34)
I've made a decision that this is how I'm going to live my life. I'm going to do what's right. And however the cards are going to fall, they're just going to have to fall. But I also know that God has my back, right? And no matter what happens, it's going to happen because it's supposed to happen.

Terry Baylor (02:37)
That's right.

That's right.

That's right.

That's right. That's right. So I read a book in college and the book was called integrity. And there was a, there was a definition of integrity in the book. And it was this, simply this, doing the right thing, even if it's at your own expense, that's, that is the highest form of integrity. And I said, so that is, that is a mantra that I've aspired to. I'm going to do the right thing, even though

Ralph Owens (03:03)
Mm-hmm. Okay, that's integrity. That's right.

Mm-hmm.

Terry Baylor (03:16)
You know what, in the short term, let me say this now, because ultimately it's a short term thing, right? The short term, there's gonna be seemingly loss, seemingly loss. But I have a friend, he says this all the time, I'm gonna give a shout out to Sam Jackson. He said, has a way of using what looks like trouble. And here's the operative word, looks like trouble, to bless you. He has a uncanny knack.

Ralph Owens (03:41)
Bye. Yes.

Yes.

Terry Baylor (03:45)
to

use what looks like trouble. Typically, that looks like trouble is a lot of times comes from the fact that you're standing on, as I learned this last year from my son, standing on business. We're standing on God's business though, right? So when you stand on the business of integrity, it may look like a short-term loss. But again, right, what comes out of that is gonna be...

Ralph Owens (03:48)
So true.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Terry Baylor (04:12)
man, just blessings over blessings because when you stand up to do the right thing, you know, it's not gonna be overlooked and you're gonna be rewarded. that's basically it's the principle of you reap what you sow, man. It's at end of the day.

Ralph Owens (04:16)
Yeah.

this way.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I'll take it a step further. Even if you don't see any benefit, you still do it because it's who you are. It's the decision. You know, I tell ⁓ my son-in-law all the time, you have to make a decision what man you're going to be. Right? I wish somebody had told me that when I was younger. You have to make a decision, draw a line in the sand. This is who I'm going to be. That's not conditional upon the circumstances. That is a

Terry Baylor (04:31)
Yes. Yes.

Mmm. Mmm.

Yes.

Yes. No.

Ralph Owens (04:55)
internal resolve that you have to make for yourself. And then you let all the cards fall where they're to fall, based on that decision that you made. But we all have to do that. You can't conform to every circumstance and situation that comes around you. You'll never have any strength.

Terry Baylor (04:56)
Yes. Yep. Yep.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Sure, sure,

sure. And let me just add a little bit to that, Ralph, because I've been, man, I've been, like I said, man, I've been studying and chewing on some stuff. And so I shared this with a friend the other day. I said, look, man, you know, if we really, you know, we got to have our Bible reference, right? So if we really believe what the Bible says, that all things work together for the good of those who love the Lord and are called according to his purpose, right? All I'm responsible for, so here's what I told a friend. I said, after really,

Ralph Owens (05:36)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Terry Baylor (05:42)
digging into that and thinking on that. Man, look, you know what my responsibility is? I just manage outcomes because at the end of the day, every outcome is gonna work for me. Now, but here's the outcome that I'm managing, me.

Ralph Owens (05:48)
Mm. Mm.

Mmm.

Mmm.

Terry Baylor (06:01)
How am I in it? Because again, it's gonna look, look, if they all work out for my good, it doesn't matter which one that comes. I'm just managing the outcome. And what am I managing most in it? Me. Who am I gonna be in the situation? What am I gonna learn from the situation? How am I gonna grow from the situation? Right? Who am I designed to impact in the situation?

Ralph Owens (06:02)
Yeah, right.

this situation.

Yep. Yep.

That's right, that's right, that's right.

Terry Baylor (06:29)
Right? Because

look, I'm not responsible for the ultimate what's gonna happen, because somebody already said what's gonna happen. It's gonna work for my good. So at the end of the day, all of them work out. ⁓

Ralph Owens (06:36)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. So.

Yeah, so you saying that ⁓ I'm not so much as worried about the overall outcome. I'm just gonna focus on managing myself in this moment.

Terry Baylor (06:50)
Yes, that's the outcome that I manage. Me.

Ralph Owens (06:52)
Yeah,

me, yeah, yeah, that's good. That is so good. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yes, that's right. Yeah, that's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it.

Terry Baylor (06:55)
Because God's responsible for the plan. I'm not responsible for the Making it happen, that's his job. I just got to handle my part. Which is me. Right?

Moses, when the children of Israel was, he wasn't responsible for the waters being part. You know what he was responsible for? Hold them hands up brother. Do you.

Ralph Owens (07:17)
lifting up the rod. That's it. That's it.

Do the part that you do play your role. Play your role and let the outcome be what it's going to be. Yeah, that's good. That's good.

Terry Baylor (07:23)
Play your role.

Exactly. So anyway,

just that that was there to encourage somebody man, because it's you know, I want you to leave man. They said I got to go through. No, you're not. We're not. Don't interpret that like that. You know, I got the I got the bad my cross. No, we're not saying that. I'm going to be very clear.

Ralph Owens (07:37)
Yeah, that's right. That's Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Another key moment was a curb that reshapes your long-term credibility. And I think that kind of goes to what we were just saying that when you have courage in these moments to do the right thing, over time, when people see your story, it creates credibility for you.

Terry Baylor (08:04)
Yes, yes.

Ralph Owens (08:04)
Right. They

know that you're dependable. They know that you're going to do the right thing, you know, in the midst of hard situations. Right. When you get to these places where Terry and I are at, you know, it's attractive to others to know that, Hey, you know, even if things are difficult, I can depend on this person to do the right thing. So now, you know, it helps to strengthen. like, you know, even where I'm at, right. As CIO, my CEO, he's expecting me to do the right thing.

Terry Baylor (08:08)
Yes.

Yes. Yep.

Ralph Owens (08:35)
Even when things are hard, right? He can depend on me to do that. That helps him to lead the whole organization better because he doesn't have to worry about, am I going to flake out when it comes to something that's in my space? And everybody that reports to him directly, he expects us to be able to lead, you know, under hard times and under difficult conditions. But you look like you're going say something.

Terry Baylor (08:35)
Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes, yes.

⁓ man, it takes me back to what Brenda said. She said, they attracted to my consistency. Remember she said that?

Ralph Owens (09:02)
Yes, that's

right.

Terry Baylor (09:06)
She said, she said,

then she said, I can't trust them, but they can trust me.

Ralph Owens (09:14)
But again, that resolve, you know, that she made that this is the type of person that I'm going to be, irregardless of the circumstances around me. Right? That's a powerful, powerful thing. You know, when you do, when you introspectively look within yourself and say, who am I? And again, going back to that identity, right? Who am I choosing to be? Right. And that drives all your actions, your outcomes. But yeah.

Terry Baylor (09:16)
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. It's key. Yes. Yes. And I love,

I love the notes you have here, Ralph, about faith as an anchor during uncertainty, right? Because that, I believe that is the undergirding ⁓ element that allows you to take this position. You see what I'm saying? It's not, I'm not doing this in my power, right? But I am undergirded.

Ralph Owens (09:47)
Mmm.

Yep, yep, yep.

That's right.

That's right. That's right.

Terry Baylor (10:04)
Now God's given me a certain ⁓ personality, right? You know, God knows he put in me, Terry, go, I mean, let me put this, I'm gonna put a, I can't put too much of fight in it, but I put a put because he already, because look, standing up for what's right is just, I just remember that from the time I was a kid, man. I just remember that, hey, you know what? I'm the smallest kid out there, but I'm like, hey, stop bullying him.

Ralph Owens (10:08)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Terry Baylor (10:33)
I'm five,

seven, 105 pounds. And I'm going to the bullies saying, man, man, leave him alone. I mean, I didn't have nothing. I definitely didn't have nothing that was going to change the situation. again, understanding that, you know what, man, God has a purpose for me. And he's not going to let me fail. But it also goes into, I think, Ralph wanted to

Ralph Owens (10:36)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. ⁓

Mm-hmm.

That's right. That's right. That's right.

Terry Baylor (11:02)
But courage doesn't mean you be reckless either.

Ralph Owens (11:05)
That's right. That's right. That's right. Because you have a responsibility. We all do, right? To help others and to bring them along along the way. know, sometimes I know young in my career, I was thinking that, I'm just a line worker. I ain't got no responsibility to nobody. You know, that's the leader's responsibility. No, we all have responsibility to help those along the journey. Right? That we carry that with us. So some of the key takeaways.

Terry Baylor (11:09)
Correct.

Ralph Owens (11:31)
from that conversation is silence preserves comfort in not calling. And when we say that, what we mean is the times where you need to speak up, to speak the truth, being silent basically preserves your own comfort. But that doesn't fuel your calling to be who you were called to be. You gotta speak up for things that are right. And courage doesn't, to your point, require recklessness, but faith stabilizes the leader's outcomes.

Terry Baylor (11:35)
Mmm.

Mmm.

Ralph Owens (12:01)
said, when the outcomes are unclear. If you don't know what's going to happen, as long as you got your faith right, you don't have to worry about it to your point, Terry. All you got to do is show up and be who you're supposed to be.

Terry Baylor (12:01)
Mmm.

Yes.

Yes, yes. Manage you in the moment, Maintain, maintain, right? Those pillars, man, consistency, humility, kindness, you know, be human first, right? All those things, right?

Ralph Owens (12:16)
Let's go.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, just a quick, a quick spiritual plug there. So the message at church on Sunday was talking about the change of a Christian, right? And how the fruit of the spirit should be the things that are evident in your life. So understanding what those are and making sure that you are allowing yourself to change in that direction and demonstrate those things, even in the workplace is important. It really, really is important.

So some of the guest reflections, things that he said, confidence and arrogance are not the same thing. Very important to understand the difference. then there are moments when you have to decide who you are and not just what you do. And heavy, man. Heavy. Going back to that identity. It's so important. It's so important. We're going to spend a whole section on this in 2026 because we realized that, you know, a lot of people are living...

Terry Baylor (13:08)
Mmm.

Yes.

Ralph Owens (13:23)
are not living to their fullest potential because they don't understand their own true identity. Right? It's really powerful. So all of these conversations, courage, curiosity, identity, and value all point to something deeper than just tactics and execution. They point back to your whole identity. Who are you? Right? And what is it that you're trying to achieve? So let's move on to the final one, which is one of the shows that we took. I think it was the second show of the year that we did.

Terry Baylor (13:27)
Correct.

Ralph Owens (13:52)
The soul of leadership with Lauren Scott. Another one that wrecked me. Yeah.

Terry Baylor (13:55)
my gosh, ⁓ my gosh. We gotta get Long's back, man. I think we

gotta have Long's back in 26 because it was just, you know what I love most about that show? He unveiled some things about the millennials ⁓ that was just so critical to understand, just around the psychology and the decision making and how

Ralph Owens (14:02)
Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Terry Baylor (14:22)
you know, that generation is so in tune with who they are. Right. And there are just some things that they're not going to do because it's just, you know, they're like, look, it's not worth me sacrificing me. And so and I think that was it was great for me to to hear that and to, ⁓ you know, he provided some some real I don't want to say anecdotal, but some great insights and how to engage. I just I really appreciate it.

Ralph Owens (14:26)
Yes.

So true.

Terry Baylor (14:51)
His thoughtfulness and his... Man, just the dude was just such a phenomenal communicator. It's just... It's like, wow!

Ralph Owens (14:58)
Yes.

Yeah, he, Lawrence blew me away, man. Cause again, I didn't know him before the show, you did. And the power and the authority that he was able to speak in. And again, to your point, his ability to communicate was just off the charts. And I learned so much in that moment. And you really crystallized it, Terrius. Understanding the millennial mindset, right? I mean, we can't speak to that. That's not our experience, right?

Terry Baylor (15:27)
Yes, correct.

Ralph Owens (15:28)
But having

somebody on the show who can actually speak to that and really help us to key in on some of the things that we need to be focusing on when dealing with the millennials as well, I think was super beneficial. Some of his impactful moments were leadership as a stewardship and not as an ambition. You know how heavy that is, That is. And coming from somebody his age, the fact that he understands that.

Terry Baylor (15:41)
Yeah.

Hmm. that's a lot. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes.

Ralph Owens (15:57)
You know, it is a

stewardship, again, tied to your purpose, tied to your identity, right? It's a stewardship, not an ambition, an integrity when no one else is watching, exactly what you just talked about, right? It deciding who you're gonna be and how you're gonna act in every situation, regardless of the circumstance, right? And that inner formation before it outward influence, I gotta say that again.

Terry Baylor (16:18)
my god, Alma.

Right, that's what I I just read it. was like, ⁓ we have, I remember. my gosh, that is so good.

Ralph Owens (16:27)
Inner formation before outward influence.

Terry Baylor (16:32)
Mm.